From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Thu Oct 12 00:04:38 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Fri Oct 13 01:02:30 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] cabaret
In-Reply-To: <452D6733.000001.00188@VAIO-584793128F>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F13769E3A3A9ACB619D1B97A8140@phx.gbl>
Dear Williadministratorm
Why?
Will-i-am still cannot 'take' images :-?
And while we are at the "why' thinkg(ing):
Why does it appear van-hevuvel has so little
Tolerance & suspension
PS:
and as little reward for all y'our thinkging:
here a ginger-snap-shot from a recent bohmchatdialogclubnight, o la la
http://www3.ndr.de/container/ndr_style_images_default/0,2299,OID1843504,00.jpg
Love & Compassion, Kirsten
>From: "dialogue-admin" <admin@david-bohm.net>
>Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
>Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] cabaret
>Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 23:50:43 +0200 (Westeuropäische Normalzeit)
>
>Kathryn, "Kirsten", could you please take this conversation off the list?
>
>thank you
>
>admin
>
>
>
>-------Original Message-------
>
>From: Kathryn Arizmendi
>Date: 11.10.2006 23:41:33
>To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] cabaret
>
>Thanks. Duh-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h!
>
>
>On 10/11/06 5:39 PM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
> > oh, just cut&paste the URL
> >
> > charles
> >
> >
> >> From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
> >> Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
> >> To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
> >> Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] cabaret
> >> Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 17:27:08 -0400
> >>
> >> Dear Kris - I'm trying to figure out how to put an image in an email
>the
> >> way
> >> you do, as a jpg so the recipient has to click on the image to open it.
> >> I'm not ignoring your last 2 posts. As a matter of fact, I have
>something
> >> brewing for the "beauty" one, but I want to start playing the image
>game
> >> with you. I want to try to send one tonight. Could you give me a
>hint?
> >>
> >> Loveandtechnologychallenged - Kathy
> >>
> >>
> >> On 10/11/06 5:11 PM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> http://www.mein-coach-online.de/moodle/file.php/1/hexenhaus-kle.jpg
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Dear Kris -
> >>>> I'm beginning to understand.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> This, dear, 's the condition of the humaninmal
> >>>
> >>> Its dis ease
> >>>
> >>> That NECESSITY (drivennessmess) to
> >>>
> >>> "UNDERSTAND"
> >>>
> >>> ....... to get thinkg..... 'it'
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> That 's what didoes get youus so deep
> >>>
> >>> In to (sh)it
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> http://www.bayswaterps.vic.edu.au/lote/maerchen/month/haensel2.gif
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Love & Lies, kathryn
> >>>
> >>> _________________________________________________________________
> >>> The next generation of Search—say hello!
> >>>
> >> http://imagine-windowslive
>com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMT
> >> A>
> >> G
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> info:
> >>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >>>
> >>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >>>
> >>> dialogue facilitator:
> >>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >>>
> >>> Administrator of the mailing list:
> >>> admin@david-bohm.net
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> info:
> >> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >>
> >> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >>
> >> dialogue facilitator:
> >> facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >>
> >> Administrator of the mailing list:
> >> admin@david-bohm.net
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Search—Your way, your world, right now!
> >
>http://imagine-windowslive
>com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTA>
>G
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > info:
> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >
> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >
> > dialogue facilitator:
> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >
> > Administrator of the mailing list:
> > admin@david-bohm.net
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on Windows Live
Spaces
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.get.live.com/spaces/features
From tangykatt at earthlink.net Thu Oct 12 00:11:47 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Fri Oct 13 01:09:53 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] cabaret
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F13769E3A3A9ACB619D1B97A8140@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <C152E463.376D%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
To the Administrator - no problem. I had planned to send the next one to
Kris's email. k
On 10/11/06 6:04 PM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Williadministratorm
>
> Why?
>
> Will-i-am still cannot 'take' images :-?
>
> And while we are at the "why' thinkg(ing):
>
> Why does it appear van-hevuvel has so little
>
> Tolerance & suspension
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> PS:
>
> and as little reward for all y'our thinkging:
>
> here a ginger-snap-shot from a recent bohmchatdialogclubnight, o la la
>
> http://www3.ndr.de/container/ndr_style_images_default/0,2299,OID1843504,00.jpg
>
>
>
> Love & Compassion, Kirsten
>
>
>> From: "dialogue-admin" <admin@david-bohm.net>
>> Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>> To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] cabaret
>> Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 23:50:43 +0200 (Westeurop?ische Normalzeit)
>>
>> Kathryn, "Kirsten", could you please take this conversation off the list?
>>
>> thank you
>>
>> admin
>>
>>
>>
>> -------Original Message-------
>>
>> From: Kathryn Arizmendi
>> Date: 11.10.2006 23:41:33
>> To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>> Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] cabaret
>>
>> Thanks. Duh-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h!
>>
>>
>> On 10/11/06 5:39 PM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> oh, just cut&paste the URL
>>>
>>> charles
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
>>>> Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>>>> To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] cabaret
>>>> Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 17:27:08 -0400
>>>>
>>>> Dear Kris - I'm trying to figure out how to put an image in an email
>> the
>>>> way
>>>> you do, as a jpg so the recipient has to click on the image to open it.
>>>> I'm not ignoring your last 2 posts. As a matter of fact, I have
>> something
>>>> brewing for the "beauty" one, but I want to start playing the image
>> game
>>>> with you. I want to try to send one tonight. Could you give me a
>> hint?
>>>>
>>>> Loveandtechnologychallenged - Kathy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 10/11/06 5:11 PM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.mein-coach-online.de/moodle/file.php/1/hexenhaus-kle.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Kris -
>>>>>> I'm beginning to understand.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This, dear, 's the condition of the humaninmal
>>>>>
>>>>> Its dis ease
>>>>>
>>>>> That NECESSITY (drivennessmess) to
>>>>>
>>>>> "UNDERSTAND"
>>>>>
>>>>> ....... to get thinkg..... 'it'
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That 's what didoes get youus so deep
>>>>>
>>>>> In to (sh)it
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.bayswaterps.vic.edu.au/lote/maerchen/month/haensel2.gif
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Love & Lies, kathryn
>>>>>
>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>> The next generation of Search?say hello!
>>>>>
>>>> http://imagine-windowslive
>> com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMT
>>>> A>
>>>> G
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> info:
>>>>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>>>>
>>>>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>>>>
>>>>> dialogue facilitator:
>>>>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>>>>
>>>>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>>>>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> info:
>>>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>>>
>>>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>>>
>>>> dialogue facilitator:
>>>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>>>
>>>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>>>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> Search?Your way, your world, right now!
>>>
>> http://imagine-windowslive
>> com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTA>
>> G
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> info:
>>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>>
>>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> dialogue facilitator:
>>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> info:
>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>
>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>
>> dialogue facilitator:
>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>
>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> info:
>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>
>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>
>> dialogue facilitator:
>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>
>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on Windows Live
> Spaces
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.g
> et.live.com/spaces/features
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
From tangykatt at earthlink.net Thu Oct 12 00:19:05 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Fri Oct 13 01:16:58 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] cabaret
In-Reply-To: <452D6733.000001.00188@VAIO-584793128F>
Message-ID: <C152E619.376F%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Just to let you know I sent the next email to Kris?s hotmail address. If it
shows up there, I didn?t send it. k
On 10/11/06 5:50 PM, "dialogue-admin" <admin@david-bohm.net> wrote:
> Kathryn, "Kirsten", could you please take this conversation off the list?
>
> thank you
>
> admin
>
>
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: Kathryn Arizmendi <mailto:tangykatt@earthlink.net>
> Date: 11.10.2006 23:41:33
> To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
> Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] cabaret
>
> Thanks. Duh-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h!
>
>
> On 10/11/06 5:39 PM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> > oh, just cut&paste the URL
>> >
>> > charles
>> >
>> >
>>> >> From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
>>> >> Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>>> >> To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
>>> >> Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] cabaret
>>> >> Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 17:27:08 -0400
>>> >>
>>> >> Dear Kris - I'm trying to figure out how to put an image in an email the
>>> >> way
>>> >> you do, as a jpg so the recipient has to click on the image to open it.
>>> >> I'm not ignoring your last 2 posts. As a matter of fact, I have
>>> something
>>> >> brewing for the "beauty" one, but I want to start playing the image game
>>> >> with you. I want to try to send one tonight. Could you give me a hint?
>>> >>
>>> >> Loveandtechnologychallenged - Kathy
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On 10/11/06 5:11 PM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com>
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> http://www.mein-coach-online.de/moodle/file.php/1/hexenhaus-kle.jpg
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>> Dear Kris -
>>>>> >>>> I'm beginning to understand.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> This, dear, 's the condition of the humaninmal
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Its dis ease
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> That NECESSITY (drivennessmess) to
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> "UNDERSTAND"
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> ....... to get thinkg..... 'it'
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> That 's what didoes get youus so deep
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> In to (sh)it
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> http://www.bayswaterps.vic.edu.au/lote/maerchen/month/haensel2.gif
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Love & Lies, kathryn
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>> >>> The next generation of Search?say hello!
>>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLM
>>> T
>>> <http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FOR
>>> M=WLMT>
>>> >> A>
>>> >> G
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>>> >>> info:
>>>> >>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>>> <http://www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> dialogue facilitator:
>>>> >>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>>>> >>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> info:
>>> >> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>> <http://www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue>
>>> >>
>>> >> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>> >>
>>> >> dialogue facilitator:
>>> >> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>> >>
>>> >> Administrator of the mailing list:
>>> >> admin@david-bohm.net
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >>
>>> >>
>> >
>> > _________________________________________________________________
>> > Search?Your way, your world, right now!
>> >
> http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTA
> <http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=
> WLMTA> >
> G
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > info:
>> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>> <http://www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue>
>> >
>> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>> >
>> > dialogue facilitator:
>> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
>> >
>> > Administrator of the mailing list:
>> > admin@david-bohm.net
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> >
>> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> <http://www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue>
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
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From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Thu Oct 12 01:39:01 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Fri Oct 13 02:36:59 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] cabaret & admissiontrator
In-Reply-To: <C152E463.376D%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F1564EC1284D77133FBAF25A8140@phx.gbl>
Dear Ad-minister-rater: In general this kind of fear is defensive,
in the sense that it is a protection of our self-esteem, of
our love and respect for ourselves. We tend to be afraid of
any knowledge that could cause us to despise ourselves or to
make us feel inferior, weak, worthless, evil, shameful. We
protect ourselves and our ideal image of ourselves by
repression and similar defenses, which are essentially
techniques by which we avoid becoming conscious of unpleasant
or dangerous truths.
Love & Flove, Kirsten
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>
>To the Administrator - no problem. I had planned to send the next one to
>Kris's email. k
>
>
>On 10/11/06 6:04 PM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
> > Dear Williadministratorm
> >
> > Why?
> >
> > Will-i-am still cannot 'take' images :-?
> >
> > And while we are at the "why' thinkg(ing):
> >
> > Why does it appear van-hevuvel has so little
> >
> > Tolerance & suspension
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > PS:
> >
> > and as little reward for all y'our thinkging:
> >
> > here a ginger-snap-shot from a recent bohmchatdialogclubnight, o la la
> >
> >
>http://www3.ndr.de/container/ndr_style_images_default/0,2299,OID1843504,00.jpg
> >
> >
> >
> > Love & Compassion, Kirsten
> >
> >
> >> From: "dialogue-admin" <admin@david-bohm.net>
> >> Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
> >> To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
> >> Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] cabaret
> >> Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 23:50:43 +0200 (Westeuropäische Normalzeit)
> >>
> >> Kathryn, "Kirsten", could you please take this conversation off the
>list?
> >>
> >> thank you
> >>
> >> admin
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -------Original Message-------
> >>
> >> From: Kathryn Arizmendi
> >> Date: 11.10.2006 23:41:33
> >> To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
> >> Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] cabaret
> >>
> >> Thanks. Duh-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h!
> >>
> >>
> >> On 10/11/06 5:39 PM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> oh, just cut&paste the URL
> >>>
> >>> charles
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
> >>>> Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
> >>>> To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] cabaret
> >>>> Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 17:27:08 -0400
> >>>>
> >>>> Dear Kris - I'm trying to figure out how to put an image in an email
> >> the
> >>>> way
> >>>> you do, as a jpg so the recipient has to click on the image to open
>it.
> >>>> I'm not ignoring your last 2 posts. As a matter of fact, I have
> >> something
> >>>> brewing for the "beauty" one, but I want to start playing the image
> >> game
> >>>> with you. I want to try to send one tonight. Could you give me a
> >> hint?
> >>>>
> >>>> Loveandtechnologychallenged - Kathy
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 10/11/06 5:11 PM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://www.mein-coach-online.de/moodle/file.php/1/hexenhaus-kle.jpg
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Dear Kris -
> >>>>>> I'm beginning to understand.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This, dear, 's the condition of the humaninmal
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Its dis ease
> >>>>>
> >>>>> That NECESSITY (drivennessmess) to
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "UNDERSTAND"
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ....... to get thinkg..... 'it'
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> That 's what didoes get youus so deep
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In to (sh)it
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://www.bayswaterps.vic.edu.au/lote/maerchen/month/haensel2.gif
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Love & Lies, kathryn
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _________________________________________________________________
> >>>>> The next generation of Search—say hello!
> >>>>>
> >>>> http://imagine-windowslive
> >> com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMT
> >>>> A>
> >>>> G
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >> com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTA>
> >> G
> >>>
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From donlay at gte.net Thu Oct 12 15:37:04 2006
From: donlay at gte.net (Don Lay)
Date: Fri Oct 13 16:35:16 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: reason-ance, logos-ance
References: <OFFB421267.61D2B599-ON85257204.0047DE74-85257204.0047EE37@dialogos.com>
Message-ID: <001101c6ee03$822170a0$2b01a8c0@your0548c161e1>
Rodger, your meaning is unclear.
We could consider the Greek logos as processual or in terms of process-- maybe standing for those processes by which self awareness occurs, without which there would be, could be no self-awareness. For example, think of the mysterious principle of the universe by which everything is known as quantum processes instead of as Webster's definition of the Greek logos. These processes are, by definition, infinite, capable of indefinite extension. Maybe this is a way to begin thinking of and talking about the characteristics of implicate oder.
Then, instead of thinGKing about and being aware of your persona self, think of and be aware of the universal processes by which we are aware of the personal self. Could this solve personal problems, maybe problems of fear and anxiety about self and its appearance, how the self might accomplish, etc?
When K and B suggest "watching it" and awareness, aren't they suggesting that we become aware of the processes of awareness such that we are no longer obsessing re self?
Consider how excessive self-concern leads people to addictive problems. Perhaps if they could become aware of the processes by which the self appears, if they could deeply see that self is appearance as per Bohm, might it not solve their addiction to excessive eating, over weight, etc?
,
----- Original Message -----
From: Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com
To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 9:05 AM
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: reason-ance, logos-ance
Rodger __Lead the way Don. Tell us about Reason-ance, logos-ance, ratio-ance. _R
.
.
From: "Don Lay" <donlay@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] music & assumptions
To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
.
.
It seems to me that so long as we continue talking about the persona instead of instead of the processes, we continue to pollute experience. Reason-ance, logos-ance, ratio-ance? -- Don L
.
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From donlay at gte.net Thu Oct 12 15:48:30 2006
From: donlay at gte.net (Don Lay)
Date: Fri Oct 13 16:46:48 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: Logos
References: <20061008.150530.3912.3.ae.dropper@juno.com>
<002201c6ebf8$59808710$0401a8c0@your0548c161e1>
Message-ID: <004b01c6ee05$1a9e31a0$2b01a8c0@your0548c161e1>
Instead of immediately defending the status quo definition of logos, dialogos, is it possible to consider the meanings and definitions given it by other people at other times and places?
For example, is it possible to consider the meaning of logos, dia logos, when the meaning of logos is ratio which is now said to refer to mathematics? I.e., is it possible to simply have an expexperience of something being twice as large as us without having to use the language of math? Maybe a better experience than math is awe, maybe mystery, maybe mystery that there is anything at all. Reason-ance, Ratio-ance -- Don L
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Lay
To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: Logos
Contributing also is the assumption that human thought "progresses,"that we are smarter or wiser now than earlier peoples. -- Pat
In some ways maybe we are much wiser and smarter or sophisticated, even thought we may all die because of nuclear waste, etc. A really bad thing about the 'pollution' is that often there is no awareness of it. we've become used to it. -- Don L
----- Original Message -----
From: ae.dropper@juno.com
To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: Logos
Contributing also is the assumption that human thought "progresses,"
that we are smarter or wiser now than earlier peoples. Bohm cautioned
about this deep assumption regarding science [and in general].
I think it was in "Wholeness." Maybe I can find it.
Nope.
pat
On Sun, 8 Oct 2006 12:00:42 EDT MarkHarmer@aol.com writes:
Is that because there was a point where science and art split, and the language of measurement and commerce was seen as more "useful" than the language of emotion and affect?
And after all those centuries of physical laws and measurement, we have descovered that the more closely we look(quantum mechanics) the more difficult things become to measure. Quantum mechanics is full of strange and charming language as we start to have to describe what we assume is our physical world in quite abstract, poetic terms again.
Paracelsus is in ?Alchemy & Mysticism?, but not Parmenides. I don?t remember the others in question, but perhaps there is some subconscious feeling that these early thinkers weren?t
?scientific?, therefore we tend to discount them, even fear them. I have seen that happen in other areas of endeavor. k
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From ae.dropper at juno.com Thu Oct 12 17:07:33 2006
From: ae.dropper at juno.com (ae.dropper@juno.com)
Date: Fri Oct 13 18:08:14 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] cabaret
Message-ID: <20061012.110738.3988.13.ae.dropper@juno.com>
Thanks William for the plethoric mixture of rapidly passing feelings. A
veritable cornucopia!
Feelings not possible without your [someone's, anyone's] "finger on the
button."
Wondering if we sometimes tend to 'live for such thrills, such stirrings
and mixtures [blasts] of incoherent sensation'.
Wondering what it would all be like if we granted [power] "buttons"
to no one.
We fear that.
What is this fear?
How does the 'granting of power buttons' generalize itself?
What is the general form of this that manifests itself
in such a literal way?
How does thought "give other people power
over the way we feel and experience our lives?"
Are any of these feelings "throw away" feelings?
Should any of these feelings be resisted?
Are there appropriate responses to feelings?
Might an appropriate response seem inappropriate
to thought? Does thought think it is inappropriate to
feel certain feelings? By what means does thought decide
to not feel certain feelings? By what thoughts does thought
decide to not feel certain feelings? By what general category
of thought does thought decide to not feel certain feelings?
pat
On Wed, 11 Oct 2006 23:50:43 +0200 (Westeurop?ische Normalzeit)
"dialogue-admin" <admin@david-bohm.net> writes:
Kathryn, "Kirsten", could you please take this conversation off the list?
thank you
admin
-------Original Message-------
From: Kathryn Arizmendi
Date: 11.10.2006 23:41:33
To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] cabaret
Thanks. Duh-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h!
On 10/11/06 5:39 PM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> oh, just cut&paste the URL
>
> charles
>
>
>> From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
>> Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>> To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] cabaret
>> Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 17:27:08 -0400
>>
>> Dear Kris - I'm trying to figure out how to put an image in an email
the
>> way
>> you do, as a jpg so the recipient has to click on the image to open
it.
>> I'm not ignoring your last 2 posts. As a matter of fact, I have
something
>> brewing for the "beauty" one, but I want to start playing the image
game
>> with you. I want to try to send one tonight. Could you give me a
hint?
>>
>> Loveandtechnologychallenged - Kathy
>>
>>
>> On 10/11/06 5:11 PM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> http://www.mein-coach-online.de/moodle/file.php/1/hexenhaus-kle.jpg
>>>
>>>
>>>> Dear Kris -
>>>> I'm beginning to understand.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This, dear, 's the condition of the humaninmal
>>>
>>> Its dis ease
>>>
>>> That NECESSITY (drivennessmess) to
>>>
>>> "UNDERSTAND"
>>>
>>> ....... to get thinkg..... 'it'
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> That 's what didoes get youus so deep
>>>
>>> In to (sh)it
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.bayswaterps.vic.edu.au/lote/maerchen/month/haensel2.gif
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Love & Lies, kathryn
>>>
>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> The next generation of Search?say hello!
>>>
>>
http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=
WLMT
>> A>
>> G
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
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>>
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>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Search?Your way, your world, right now!
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http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=
WLMTA>
G
>
> _______________________________________________
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From ae.dropper at juno.com Thu Oct 12 06:38:14 2006
From: ae.dropper at juno.com (ae.dropper@juno.com)
Date: Fri Oct 13 18:08:15 2006
Subject: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] music & assumptions
Message-ID: <20061012.110738.3988.12.ae.dropper@juno.com>
DON L: Evidently one of Bohm's favourite subjects also.
Pat: Quite. In the seminars on thought and dialogue he very carefully
leads you to this, the 'bottom line' of the reflexes of thought. Along
with personal self/world image, this 'bottom line' is also called "time"
[linear time] which is a requirement for the personal self image. Of
course, nothing is stated as "true" - only as coherent theories to
present to the process of deep inquiry.
DON L: Pat, Is it meaningful to say it is logos as meaning -- that is the
wariness in which the ideas occur, in which the idea occurs to not
respond, also the idea to watch and suspend the first response, urge,
etc?
Pat: Ahh. "Logos AS meaning." Good to read that. "Logos AS Meaning AS
[the] Wariness" [in which these ideas occur]. Definitely
meaningful.
DON L.: Seems to me the logos presents one idea or notion or possibility
after the other ... inexhaustibly -- and more, the logos differentiates
what is and what is not appropriate to act out.
Pat: No problem with that. In fact it seems simultaneously
new & "to go without saying." Interesting. [Carefully used words
seem to be little people {as I've said before}. There is an intimacy with
these key words that seems to almost take place among themselves.
DON L.:In the case of improvization in graphic art, the artist can be
vaguely aware of different possibilities or (ONTIC) suggestions ... sort
of look at them "mentally" and also become aware that one possibility
will be "mouth watering", one way will work better than another way, one
color will work betrter than another color, etc..
DON L.: And when people ooh and aahh at our work and pat us on the head,
tell us how brilliant we are ..., of course we say, I decide which color
to use, or I decided to do this or that, etc., just as we say I decided
to run from the whatever, and I ran out of breath, etc., as if the I did
the deciding to run and run out of breath, etc.
Pat: Very good examples. We seem to think that the personal "I" gets
smarter about these "choices" as we grow older but this may be no more
than a combination of memory along with [memory guided] increased access
[of the system of thought] to intelligence. Does personal "I" [the little
person 'inside'] beat the heart?
DON L.: Is it a fair example to point to a mother who says that she
decided to feed her cub, baby, etc? The reality seems to be that the
deciding occurs within the universal systems and has nothing to do with
the persona idem system, social identity system and the only reason the
I-persona is mentioned is that it is a reflexive system that creates
endorphins for the mother as the systems create endorphins for the artist
-- as per Bohm saying tas creates endorphins????
Pat: Is there really any other kind of addiction than 'endorphin'
addiction? If we could do it without all of the byproducts [buy
products], it would be quite inexpensive. If we could fool ourselves into
living off the anticipations of [the short-lived] satisfaction alone, we
could get away real cheap.
~~~~~~~~~
From: ae.dropper@juno.com
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] music & assumptions
PAT: Our favorite subject. Sometimes I "act" on the idea that if I
respond less to this stuff, others will respond more. Sometimes I suspend
the non response.
As I speak (write) there is awareness that it is not literally "I"
[personal "I"] that guides these actions, but assumptions; thoughts,
"ideas."
DON L: Evidently one of Bohm's favourite subjects also.
Pat, Is it meaningful to say it is logos as meaning -- that is the
wariness in which the ideas occur, in which the idea occurs to not
respond, also the idea to watch and suspend the first response, urge,
etc?
Seems to me the logos presents one idea or notion or possibility after
the other ... inexhaustibly -- and more, the logos differentiates what is
and what is not appropriate to act out. In the case of improvization in
graphic art, the artist can be vaguely aware of different possibilities
or (ONTIC) suggestions ... sort of look at them "mentally" and also
become aware that one possibility will be "mouth watering", one way will
work better than another way, one color will work betrter than another
color, etc..
And when people ooh and aahh at our work and pat us on the head, tell us
how brilliant we are ..., of course we say, I decide which color to use,
or I decided to do this or that, etc., just as we say I decided to run
from the whatever, and I ran out of breath, etc., as if the I did the
deciding to run and run out of breath, etc.
Is it a fair example to point to a mother who says that she decided to
feed her cub, baby, etc? The reality seems to be that the deciding
occurs within the universal systems and has nothing to do with the
persona idem system, social identity system and the only reason the
I-persona is mentioned is that it is a reflexive system that creates
endorphins for the mother as the systems create endorphins for the artist
-- as per Bohm saying tas creates endorphins???? -- Don L
PAT: The thing about "artists" experiencing works taking form "through"
them rather than "from" them [personally] is that the results of this
experience appear in a concrete form that is then appreciated and spoken
of. Speaking of "the process" often happens.
But this process occurs in everyday "life" too. It is ongoing. This
[awareness] is a byproduct of "awareness of thought" [as per bohm -
and many others of course].
"Pollution of Experience" is a good metaphor.
Does anyone else notice that things just seem to be "happening?"
And that's it? And that "I am doing this" is just a thought that occurs
[if & when it occurs] slightly 'after' whatever 'event' the thought
has [claimed to have] captured. Actually it can seem that the
"capturing of event" AS event, and the personal I, [thought]
are just aspects of the same thought.
(I know there are deep and strong "moral"* arguments
against such a thing. These tap into the most rigid
of the cultural assumptions - into taboo areas in relation to
deep inquiry).
*Good & Evil, Culpability, Justice, Responsibility,
Choice, Free Will.
Formidable, religion based [thought] walls
[against inquiry; especially social inquiry (as in group dialogue).
These areas invite a lot of private inquiry].
pat
On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 08:45:36 -0400 "Don Lay" <donlay@gte.net> writes:
When a musician writes,performs music ... do we say they explicate; i.e.,
the music unfolds from the implicate?
The graphic artist often says although he is present at the easel,
somehow 'he' does not do the painting. Rather, it unfolds; i.e., art
becomes explicated. Writers sometimes say "they" did not do the work
.... Hemingway reread an earlier work, said: did I do that? Ed White
(NY Times sports writer) said he went to the typewriter, pecked a bit and
thirty minutes later the job was done.
Where does art come from? We say it comes from the person ..., but often
they deny it. Maybe it is like the beating heart, breathing lungs and
like Bohm says of tas: it's happening right here "in there", but I ain't
doing it.
I'm trying to point to all the sub-systems, quantum systems ... neuronal
and biological activity that must occur before I even know that I am,
before self-consciousness occurs -- quite before persona reference is
applicable. It seems to me that so long as we continue talking about the
persona instead of instead of the processes, we continue to pollute
experience. Reason-ance, logos-ance, ratio-ance? -- Don L
----- Original Message -----
From: MarkHarmer@aol.com
To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] music & assumptions
Interesting idea! And to me it agrees with my earlier thought: surely
solo improvisation, recorded (presumably) on ones own, is not dialogue,
it's monologue. Unless one's perhaps exploring the dialogue between
different elements of one's personality perhaps... - hence why I said
group dialogue as opposed to dialogue.
When the musician makes meaning, does she participate and interpret the
meaning of the whole for homo-sap -- a partial meaning for a part of the
whole?
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From tangykatt at earthlink.net Thu Oct 12 17:13:52 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Fri Oct 13 18:12:07 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: No right brain?
In-Reply-To: <OF00057C0F.809A34B0-ON85257203.004099CE-85257203.00480933@dialogos.com>
Message-ID: <C153D3F0.378A%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Morning, Rodger -
I wanted to share an insight with you that bears out exactly what you say in
the paragraph below. And I believe that our discussion played a role in
this coming about. So thank you.
On 10/10/06 9:06 AM, "Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com" <Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com>
wrote:
> Yes, regarding the emotional hormones that were prominent at a time of
> learning. Time travel aside, our life lessons are made of what they are made
> of - including the times in the past when they the lesson took place. In this
> sense, there is no going back.
>
> When Frances Minor, the education theorist-teacher I previously mentioned, was
> alive to guide us students through the concepts I found later to fit perfectly
> Bohm?s thoughts in ?On Creativity?, the one piece of the whole I could not
> relate to very well was the role of images. Among the easier reading material
> was Arnheim?s ?Visual Thinking?, Langler?s ?Philosophy in a New Key?,
> Cassierer, and names and titles I don?t remember. The only understanding I
> came to was that imaging has a role in perception and thought, and a
> possibility that dreams are a natural way of producing symbols for our
> experience. And she was concerning about people mistaking words for reality.
Then I read Bohm. From ?Thought As a System?, ?There may be an image
language...They are different forms of that one thought...but it?s all
thought...The point is that words are a way of bringing the thought into
evidence, whereas it often works implicitly without your being aware of
it...Part of the reason we?re not aware of it is because of our culture,
which tells us that thought is only intellectual and therefore it?s no use
looking after this other stuff. You might become aware if it weren?t for
that...One way of looking at it is that thought provides a representation of
what you?re thinking about ? the way an artist makes a picture which
represents somebody but isn?t somebody at all...Can?t you see how it?s all
connected up? The intellectual reflexes and the visual reflexes and the
emotional and the physical and the chemical and everything are all connected
up so that you are ready to take immediate action...We?re just learning
about it...it may be helpful in some context...and we may be able to observe
some of it by bringing it up.? There is so much more, but those who are
interested and have not read this can go to the source.
> The breakthrough for me came by trying to play Kris?s image games with him.
> Last night, I was stunned as a complete scene from my childhood played like a
> movie in my memory. I will share it as an illustration. A 5 year old child,
> I had been severely physically punished by my mother who was at best a part
> time mother. She left me alone, crying in the living room. I found a book,
> and inside came face to face with a large picture of Christ, the thorny crown
> on his head, drops of blood, the anguished face. I was not frightened.
> Rather, I saw someone who shared my immediate pain, and we cried together. I
> never accepted any of the other attributes Christianity gave him. I totally
> rejected Christianity as cruel and something to be examined, understood, and
> thereby protected against. I can?t begin to tell you how that image of Christ
> in the context of that experience shaped my entire life, but only by the image
> games with Kris, and trying to decipher his cryptic messages did it surface.
> Freud played with images. Jung used them in therapy sessions. I doubt that
> either of them had any greater success than my experience yesterday. What I
> do with this insight is the next step or steps.
> So Kris, one more time ? thank you, too.
> And to Bohm for considering everything grist for the mill of exploration and
> investigation.
>
> And lest the word ?play? be mistaken for trivia, I use it in the context of
> ?Homo Ludens? by
Huizinga. (Another source from Frances.)
The February-March issue of Scientific American Mind has a very inadequate
article ?Insights About mental Imagery May Reveal How We Think?, so if you
have any reading recommendations on the topic, I will be grateful. As Bohm
said above, ?We are just learning about it.? So that fits in with one of my
early questions ? what has science learned since Bohm?s death that would
have bearing on his thought.
My computer won?t send images, so the games are on hold, unfortunately.
Good morning to the group. Here?s to more and more insights. k
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From tangykatt at earthlink.net Thu Oct 12 18:05:52 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Fri Oct 13 19:03:55 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] cabaret
In-Reply-To: <20061012.110738.3988.13.ae.dropper@juno.com>
Message-ID: <C153E020.378E%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
On 10/12/06 11:07 AM, "ae.dropper@juno.com" <ae.dropper@juno.com> wrote:
> Wondering what it would all be like if we granted [power] "buttons"
> to no one.
>
> While yesterday?s experience is still fresh and generating ideas ? this just
> occurred to me. Frances held the teacher?s (translate to any synonym that
> will fill the criteria) questioning pattern to be essential for learning,
> thought, transformation to take place. She wrote her PhD dissertation,
> Columbia, on parable as model for teaching and learning. And, oh yes, her
> teacher?s questioning pattern ?pushed buttons?. She gave one complete
> lecture on the dangers of dichotomic thinking, and ended it with the
> admonition to not be afraid to see with a child?s eyes and scream ?The emperor
> has on no clothes!?
>
> I think it?s obvious that I loved and respected her, and that she had a great
> impact on my life.
>
> Best, k
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From donlay at gte.net Thu Oct 12 18:24:22 2006
From: donlay at gte.net (Don Lay)
Date: Fri Oct 13 19:23:07 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Experience dia logos
Message-ID: <003001c6ee1a$e0fe4b40$6b02a8c0@your0548c161e1>
Perhaps it is possible, by way of process-thinking, to actually experience those processes that determine what we actually are. The idea is that if/when we know what we are, we might feel much less anxious and afraid,much less depressed, etc.
The Greek word,logos, has been interpreted as meaning. Maybe they means that what actually or really is somehow meant to be. There is a folk saying,"It was meant to be."
Also, there's the idea that there is something, some kind of reality quite other than homo sap social reality, some kind of actuality that has nothing to do with man's social identity as a mask, persona.
Is it imaginable? How can it be imagine, how could an image form of that which is over and against and entirely prior to homo sap? Could it be something like pure energy ... maybe the power by which particles, waves, atoms, molecules occur?
Reason-ance? -- Don L
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From donlay at gte.net Thu Oct 12 18:24:08 2006
From: donlay at gte.net (Don Lay)
Date: Fri Oct 13 19:29:12 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Direction dia logos
Message-ID: <002501c6ee1a$d86a8de0$6b02a8c0@your0548c161e1>
There's the old, old idea of being logos directed. Two millennia ago, wise men were said to be logos directed. Perhaps PROCESS THOUGHT is a way to understand that -- not the kind of process philosophy that would require a prissy PhD to explain -- just everyday knocking around sense. The idea is that many,many processes must obtain before you can bat an eye lash, before you can know that you are.
When it became law that everyone must "have a personal identity", somehow we stopped being wise and started acting and pretending to be the image associated with the personal identity. That is, we ignore the processes that we are, by which we interact with the WHOLE and act and pretend that we are identical with the optical image, the photo image.
Giving careful attention to universal processes, logos, perhaps we can begin to investigate and perhaps somehow identify with those processes that actually identify what we are instead of just what the imagery suggests.
Reason-ance? -- Don Lay
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From franis_franis at juno.com Thu Oct 12 02:33:35 2006
From: franis_franis at juno.com (Franis Engel)
Date: Fri Oct 13 19:36:05 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] RE: Henze
Message-ID: <20061012.093317.1084.0.franis_franis@juno.com>
cyptic messages was: this is annoying...
Peter, aka kris, bot, etc. wants to annoy, right?
Franis