From donlay at gte.net Fri Oct 13 00:23:15 2006 From: donlay at gte.net (Don Lay) Date: Sat Oct 14 01:21:26 2006 Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: reason-ance, logos-ance References: <OFFB421267.61D2B599-ON85257204.0047DE74-85257204.0047EE37@dialogos.com> Message-ID: <001e01c6ee4d$03a957c0$7600a8c0@your0548c161e1> What does it mean that the Greek logos has been interpreted as meaning reason? as meaning Ratio? as meaning meaning? What is the meaning? Could it possibly mean that words have temporary and arbitrary definitions? What would happen if we decided, for just an experiment, to use the idea that logos means meaning? Then perhaps we could seriously consider dialogue as dia meaning or in terms of dia meaning. -- Don L ----- Original Message ----- From: Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 9:05 AM Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: reason-ance, logos-ance Rodger __Lead the way Don. Tell us about Reason-ance, logos-ance, ratio-ance. _R . . From: "Don Lay" <donlay@gte.net> Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] music & assumptions To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org> . . It seems to me that so long as we continue talking about the persona instead of instead of the processes, we continue to pollute experience. Reason-ance, logos-ance, ratio-ance? -- Don L . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ info: www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net dialogue facilitator: facilitator@david-bohm.net Administrator of the mailing list: admin@david-bohm.net _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.david-bohm.org/mailman/private/bohm_dialogue/attachments/20061012/cde10494/attachment.html From donlay at gte.net Fri Oct 13 00:23:34 2006 From: donlay at gte.net (Don Lay) Date: Sat Oct 14 01:21:50 2006 Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Dorothy at Sister's Message-ID: <002501c6ee4d$0e87c870$7600a8c0@your0548c161e1> Dorothy, you home yet? This is the second day in the Great Smokey Mountains. What majesty, grandeur! -- Don L -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.david-bohm.org/mailman/private/bohm_dialogue/attachments/20061012/b202c51d/attachment.html From tangykatt at earthlink.net Fri Oct 13 02:53:46 2006 From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi) Date: Sat Oct 14 03:52:08 2006 Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Experience dia logos In-Reply-To: <003001c6ee1a$e0fe4b40$6b02a8c0@your0548c161e1> References: <003001c6ee1a$e0fe4b40$6b02a8c0@your0548c161e1> Message-ID: <D74A4ADC-D55C-4266-910A-2A9707297415@earthlink.net> Interesting question, Don. Will give it some thought. k On Oct 12, 2006, at 12:24 PM, Don Lay wrote: > Perhaps it is possible, by way of process-thinking, to actually > experience those processes that determine what we actually are. > The idea is that if/when we know what we are, we might feel much > less anxious and afraid,much less depressed, etc. > > The Greek word,logos, has been interpreted as meaning. Maybe they > means that what actually or really is somehow meant to be. There > is a folk saying,"It was meant to be." > > Also, there's the idea that there is something, some kind of > reality quite other than homo sap social reality, some kind of > actuality that has nothing to do with man's social identity as a > mask, persona. > > Is it imaginable? How can it be imagine, how could an image form > of that which is over and against and entirely prior to homo sap? > Could it be something like pure energy ... maybe the power by which > particles, waves, atoms, molecules occur? > > Reason-ance? -- Don L > _______________________________________________ > info: > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue > > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net > > dialogue facilitator: > facilitator@david-bohm.net > > Administrator of the mailing list: > admin@david-bohm.net > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.david-bohm.org/mailman/private/bohm_dialogue/attachments/20061012/5e8c3f7c/attachment.html From Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com Fri Oct 13 12:53:52 2006 From: Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com (Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com) Date: Sat Oct 14 13:52:37 2006 Subject: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: intuition In-Reply-To: <20061013100003.6C65623BB3@web.internal.van-den-heuvel.org> Message-ID: <OF220DCFDD.EA4CD733-ON85257206.00382F67-85257206.003BDD2D@dialogos.com> Rodger __Intuition. Are you asking about intuition because you have no personal experience of intuition? Like photographic memory, intuition does not scientifically exist. In science, photographic memory exists only by other names, according to the era you search for it; Eidetic-memory is a present favorite, while Epidetectorial memory was a previous. While intuition may not exist, there are many related areas which do -- telekinetic, telepathic, etc. And in fact I do consider the unique neural cell process in the human heart to be part the component of conscience. The trouble is, people always want -knowing- defined according to the brain. To know more about neural cells of the heart: -Basic & Clinical Neurocardiology, J.A. Armour, J.L. Ardell- describes the heart from a purely medical standpoint. _R . . Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 09:34:00 -0400 From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: No right brain? To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org> . Did you and the scientist you worked with define intuition? Where can I find scientific information on ?the hearts own complex neuronal processing and memory capabilities.? What do you mean by ?heart?? For a while, I thought you meant my heart inside my body pumping blood, but I don?t think so now. . . -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.david-bohm.org/mailman/private/bohm_dialogue/attachments/20061013/6a2a0e9a/attachment.html From tangykatt at earthlink.net Fri Oct 13 13:10:00 2006 From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi) Date: Sat Oct 14 14:08:14 2006 Subject: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: intuition In-Reply-To: <OF220DCFDD.EA4CD733-ON85257206.00382F67-85257206.003BDD2D@dialogos.com> Message-ID: <C154EC48.37C3%tangykatt@earthlink.net> Morning, Rodger - Thanks for the ?heart? reference. As for ?intuition? - are you referring to these definitions? in?tu?i?tion n 1. the state of being aware of or knowing something without having to discover or perceive it, or the ability to do this 2. something known or believed instinctively, without actual evidence for it 3. immediate knowledge of something Encarta? World English Dictionary ? 1999 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Developed for Microsoft by Bloomsbury Publishing Plc. I get hunches (see the book ?Blink?), but I don?t consider that knowledge. And when I get a hunch, possibly a variation on the idea of ?theory?, I don?t consider that knowledge in the sense of scientific fact. It is definitely something I investigate further. Also, I?m curious about the subtext of this particular question. I?m sensing a little abrasiveness below the surface. Hope I?m wrong. Best, k On 10/13/06 6:53 AM, "Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com" <Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com> wrote: > Rodger __Intuition. Are you asking about intuition because you have no > personal experience of intuition? > > Like photographic memory, intuition does not scientifically exist. In > science, photographic memory exists only by other names, according to the era > you search for it; Eidetic-memory is a present favorite, while Epidetectorial > memory was a previous. > > While intuition may not exist, there are many related areas which do -- > telekinetic, telepathic, etc. > > And in fact I do consider the unique neural cell process in the human heart to > be part the component of conscience. The trouble is, people always want > -knowing- defined according to the brain. > > To know more about neural cells of the heart: -Basic & Clinical > Neurocardiology, J.A. Armour, J.L. Ardell- describes the heart from a purely > medical standpoint. _R > . > . > Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 09:34:00 -0400 > From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net> > Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: No right brain? > To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org> > . > Did you and the scientist you worked with define intuition? > > Where can I find scientific information on ?the hearts own complex neuronal > processing and memory capabilities.? > > What do you mean by ?heart?? For a while, I thought you meant my heart > inside my body pumping blood, but I don?t think so now. > . > . > > _______________________________________________ > info: > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue > > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net > > dialogue facilitator: > facilitator@david-bohm.net > > Administrator of the mailing list: > admin@david-bohm.net > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.david-bohm.org/mailman/private/bohm_dialogue/attachments/20061013/07ab7807/attachment.html From ae.dropper at juno.com Fri Oct 13 14:25:51 2006 From: ae.dropper at juno.com (ae.dropper@juno.com) Date: Sat Oct 14 15:25:43 2006 Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] test Message-ID: <20061013.082551.3988.28.ae.dropper@juno.com> test From tangykatt at earthlink.net Fri Oct 13 14:37:06 2006 From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi) Date: Sat Oct 14 15:35:20 2006 Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] test In-Reply-To: <20061013.082551.3988.28.ae.dropper@juno.com> Message-ID: <C15500B2.37C7%tangykatt@earthlink.net> Good morning. Is your computer acting up? You got through, if that's the case. k On 10/13/06 8:25 AM, "ae.dropper@juno.com" <ae.dropper@juno.com> wrote: > test > _______________________________________________ > info: > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue > > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net > > dialogue facilitator: > facilitator@david-bohm.net > > Administrator of the mailing list: > admin@david-bohm.net > > _______________________________________________ > > From ae.dropper at juno.com Fri Oct 13 14:44:49 2006 From: ae.dropper at juno.com (ae.dropper@juno.com) Date: Sat Oct 14 15:46:45 2006 Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] reason-ance, logos-ance (resent) Message-ID: <20061013.084640.3988.33.ae.dropper@juno.com> I'm in! Let's work with it. pat On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 18:23:15 -0400 "Don Lay" <donlay@gte.net> writes: What does it mean that the Greek logos has been interpreted as meaning reason? as meaning Ratio? as meaning meaning? What is the meaning? Could it possibly mean that words have temporary and arbitrary definitions? What would happen if we decided, for just an experiment, to use the idea that logos means meaning? Then perhaps we could seriously consider dialogue as dia meaning or in terms of dia meaning. -- Don L ----- Original Message ----- From: Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 9:05 AM Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: reason-ance, logos-ance Rodger __Lead the way Don. Tell us about Reason-ance, logos-ance, ratio-ance. _R . . From: "Don Lay" <donlay@gte.net> Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] music & assumptions To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org> . . It seems to me that so long as we continue talking about the persona instead of instead of the processes, we continue to pollute experience. Reason-ance, logos-ance, ratio-ance? -- Don L -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.david-bohm.org/mailman/private/bohm_dialogue/attachments/20061013/55929dbc/attachment.html From ae.dropper at juno.com Fri Oct 13 14:45:45 2006 From: ae.dropper at juno.com (ae.dropper@juno.com) Date: Sat Oct 14 15:46:49 2006 Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Experience dia-logos (resent) Message-ID: <20061013.084640.3988.34.ae.dropper@juno.com> Perhaps it is possible, by way of process-thinking, to actually experience those processes that determine what we actually are. The idea is that if/when we know what we are, we might feel much less anxious and afraid,much less depressed, etc. (don L) This is my experience. It is the replay and fixations of psychological thought that depress. (pat) The Greek word,logos, has been interpreted as meaning. Maybe they means that what actually or really is somehow meant to be. There is a folk saying,"It was meant to be." (don L) How could anything be other, in any given moment, than "what is meant to be?" (pat) Also, there's the idea that there is something, some kind of reality quite other than homo sap social reality, some kind of actuality that has nothing to do with man's social identity as a mask, persona. (don L) This is much more than an idea. This can be known, realized. It cannot be "pinned down" though and nothing can be "pinned down" within it. (pat) Is it imaginable? How can it be imagine, how could an image form of that which is over and against and entirely prior to homo sap? Could it be something like pure energy ... maybe the power by which particles, waves, atoms, molecules occur? (Reason-ance? -- Don L) Words "about" it, just as images "about" it, are expressions of it and are applicable only in quite 'momentary' ways, applicable only to the intention of the moment from which they come. pat -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.david-bohm.org/mailman/private/bohm_dialogue/attachments/20061013/1e2397cb/attachment.html From ae.dropper at juno.com Fri Oct 13 14:46:31 2006 From: ae.dropper at juno.com (ae.dropper@juno.com) Date: Sat Oct 14 15:46:52 2006 Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Direction dia-logos (resent) Message-ID: <20061013.084640.3988.35.ae.dropper@juno.com> There's the old, old idea of being logos directed. Two millennia ago, wise men were said to be logos directed. Perhaps PROCESS THOUGHT is a way to understand that -- not the kind of process philosophy that would require a prissy PhD to explain -- just everyday knocking around sense. The idea is that many,many processes must obtain before you can bat an eye lash, before you can know that you are. (don L) We unfold and enfold simultaneously. There is nothing else. The "process" part (regarding self) is hidden from the "outer" senses but not from the "inner" senses. This is a "self - aware movement. It is like musical "movement [where, incidentally, the "outer" senses do perceive the simultaneity" of unfoldment / enfoldment]. (pat) When it became law that everyone must "have a personal identity", somehow we stopped being wise and started acting and pretending to be the image associated with the personal identity. That is, we ignore the processes that we are, by which we interact with the WHOLE and act and pretend that we are identical with the optical image, the photo image. Giving careful attention to universal processes, logos, perhaps we can begin to investigate and perhaps somehow identify with those processes that actually identify what we are instead of just what the imagery suggests. Reason-ance? -- Don Lay Yes. There seem to be such identity phases or moments - if it could be called that - a sense that 'what I am is process or in process'. But it seems that even this kind of identification is not necessary - except probably as a means of attempting to think and speak of what is happening now in relation to what was happening when identity was with images. pat -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.david-bohm.org/mailman/private/bohm_dialogue/attachments/20061013/9cb750ec/attachment.html From tangykatt at earthlink.net Fri Oct 13 14:59:07 2006 From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi) Date: Sat Oct 14 15:57:22 2006 Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] reason-ance, logos-ance (resent) In-Reply-To: <20061013.084640.3988.33.ae.dropper@juno.com> Message-ID: <C15505DB.37CD%tangykatt@earthlink.net> Could it possibly mean that words have temporary and arbitrary definitions? My research yesterday on improvisation definitely bears this out. Will elaborate more when I?ve sorted out my notes, and have more to take and incorporate today at CCNY. Preliminary findings are that by the application of Bohm ideas and principles, we will forge a new path. Hurray! k On 10/13/06 8:44 AM, "ae.dropper@juno.com" <ae.dropper@juno.com> wrote: > I'm in! Let's work with it. > > pat > > On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 18:23:15 -0400 "Don Lay" <donlay@gte.net> writes: >> >> >> >> What does it mean that the Greek logos has been interpreted as meaning >> reason? as meaning Ratio? as meaning meaning? What is the meaning? >> >> >> >> Could it possibly mean that words have temporary and arbitrary definitions? >> What would happen if we decided, for just an experiment, to use the idea >> that logos means meaning? >> >> >> >> Then perhaps we could seriously consider dialogue as dia meaning or in terms >> of dia meaning. -- Don L >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> >>> From: Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com >>> >>> To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org >>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 9:05 AM >>> >>> Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: reason-ance, logos-ance >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Rodger __Lead the way Don. Tell us about Reason-ance, logos-ance, >>> ratio-ance. _R >>> . >>> . >>> From: "Don Lay" <donlay@gte.net> >>> Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] music & assumptions >>> To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org> >>> . >>> . >>> It seems to me that so long as we continue talking about the persona >>> instead of instead of the processes, we continue to pollute experience. >>> Reason-ance, logos-ance, ratio-ance? -- Don L > > > _______________________________________________ > info: > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue > > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net > > dialogue facilitator: > facilitator@david-bohm.net > > Administrator of the mailing list: > admin@david-bohm.net > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.david-bohm.org/mailman/private/bohm_dialogue/attachments/20061013/abb2e69e/attachment.html From ae.dropper at juno.com Fri Oct 13 15:06:23 2006 From: ae.dropper at juno.com (ae.dropper@juno.com) Date: Sat Oct 14 16:05:52 2006 Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] test (re-sent) Message-ID: <20061013.090624.3988.36.ae.dropper@juno.com> Good Morning Kathryn, computer seems find but I got 3 messages this morning from "the administrator" that my last 3 messages had been "bounced" from the list. Glad this one got through! I will try to resend them. pat Good morning. Is your computer acting up? You got through, if that's the case. k On 10/13/06 8:25 AM, "ae.dropper@juno.com" <ae.dropper@juno.com> wrote: > test From oenthomas at gmail.com Fri Oct 13 15:17:40 2006 From: oenthomas at gmail.com (Owen Thomas) Date: Sat Oct 14 16:15:53 2006 Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Experience dia logos In-Reply-To: <003001c6ee1a$e0fe4b40$6b02a8c0@your0548c161e1> References: <003001c6ee1a$e0fe4b40$6b02a8c0@your0548c161e1> Message-ID: <1dde854d0610130617s4af8ce8ek1d43285c0b7f1aa3@mail.gmail.com> Donl, Your insight leads to the meetings here in Mexico where we learn to release EGO to sense that there is something more, the group thought of Unity in Diversity. As you suspect "Also, there's the idea that there is something, some kind of reality quite other than *homo sap social* reality, some kind of actuality that has nothing to do with man's social identity as a *mask, persona*" it is not homo (ego) sap.but a group listening and thinking together. On 10/12/06, Don Lay <donlay@gte.net> wrote: > > Perhaps it is possible, by way of process-thinking, to actually > experience those processes that determine what we actually are. The idea > is that if/when we know what we are, we might feel much less anxious and > afraid,much less depressed, etc. > > The Greek word,*logos*, has been interpreted as *meaning*. Maybe *they*means that > *what actually or really is* somehow *meant to be*. There is a folk > saying,"*It was meant to be*." > > Also, there's the idea that there is something, some kind of reality > quite other than *homo sap social* reality, some kind of actuality that > has nothing to do with man's social identity as a *mask, persona*. > > Is it *imaginable*? How can it be *imagine**, how could an **image* form > of that which is *over and against* and entirely prior to homo sap? Could > it be something like pure energy ... maybe the power by which particles, > waves, atoms, molecules occur? > > Reason-ance? -- Don L > > _______________________________________________ > info: > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue > > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net > > dialogue facilitator: > facilitator@david-bohm.net > > Administrator of the mailing list: > admin@david-bohm.net > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > -- We are connected Owen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.david-bohm.org/mailman/private/bohm_dialogue/attachments/20061013/845ee2fe/attachment.html From tangykatt at earthlink.net Fri Oct 13 15:18:50 2006 From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi) Date: Sat Oct 14 16:17:04 2006 Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] test (re-sent) In-Reply-To: <20061013.090624.3988.36.ae.dropper@juno.com> Message-ID: <C1550A7A.37D0%tangykatt@earthlink.net> Mine was acting up a couple of days back, too. Not the same problem, but frustrating. There seem to be standard messages to computer owners that indicate a problem without being accurate about its true nature. I'm upgrading to high speed. I think that was the problem. Maybe you can figure out what happened, and find a way to steer clear of it, too. Suerte!, k On 10/13/06 9:06 AM, "ae.dropper@juno.com" <ae.dropper@juno.com> wrote: > Good Morning Kathryn, computer seems find but I got 3 messages this > morning from "the administrator" that my last 3 messages had been > "bounced" from the list. Glad this one got through! I will try to resend > them. > > pat > > > Good morning. Is your computer acting up? You got through, if that's > the > case. > > k > > > On 10/13/06 8:25 AM, "ae.dropper@juno.com" <ae.dropper@juno.com> wrote: > >> test > _______________________________________________ > info: > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue > > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net > > dialogue facilitator: > facilitator@david-bohm.net > > Administrator of the mailing list: > admin@david-bohm.net > > _______________________________________________ > > From tangykatt at earthlink.net Fri Oct 13 15:21:03 2006 From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi) Date: Sat Oct 14 16:19:14 2006 Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Direction dia-logos (resent) In-Reply-To: <20061013.084640.3988.35.ae.dropper@juno.com> Message-ID: <C1550AFF.37D1%tangykatt@earthlink.net> We unfold and enfold simultaneously. There is nothing else. The "process" part (regarding self) is hidden from the "outer" senses but not from the "inner" senses. This is a "self - aware movement. It is like musical "movement [where, incidentally, the "outer" senses do perceive the simultaneity" of unfoldment / enfoldment]. (pat) This is improv, too. Wow ? you?re going so fast! I?m going to have to save these ideas for comment after reflection. Beautiful! This, to me, is beauty. k On 10/13/06 8:46 AM, "ae.dropper@juno.com" <ae.dropper@juno.com> wrote: > We unfold and enfold simultaneously. There is nothing else. The "process" part > (regarding self) > is hidden from the "outer" senses but not from the "inner" senses. This is a > "self - aware > movement. It is like musical "movement [where, incidentally, the "outer" > senses do perceive the > simultaneity" of unfoldment / enfoldment]. (pat) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.david-bohm.org/mailman/private/bohm_dialogue/attachments/20061013/2cf11d68/attachment.html From benschcoe at hotmail.com Fri Oct 13 16:17:10 2006 From: benschcoe at hotmail.com (Regina Bensch-Coe) Date: Sat Oct 14 17:15:28 2006 Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Direction dia-logos (resent) In-Reply-To: <20061013.084640.3988.35.ae.dropper@juno.com> Message-ID: <BAY123-F15A05E4BFA826AA3548F8BB70A0@phx.gbl> We unfold and enfold simultaneously. There is nothing else. (pat) To have moments of this awareness of “unfolding and enfolding simultaneously” is to live in the “Now,” to be fully present, to not grasp or seek anything. When I am striving, I am in a reflex-mode, in a non-proprioception state, and the sense of “unfolding and enfolding simultaneously” is so easily forgotten. Regina >From: ae.dropper@juno.com >Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org >To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org >Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Direction dia-logos (resent) >Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 08:46:31 -0400 > >There's the old, old idea of being logos directed. Two millennia ago, >wise men were said to be logos directed. Perhaps PROCESS THOUGHT is a >way to understand that -- not the kind of process philosophy that would >require a prissy PhD to explain -- just everyday knocking around sense. >The idea is that many,many processes must obtain before you can bat an >eye lash, before you can know that you are. (don L) > >We unfold and enfold simultaneously. There is nothing else. The "process" >part (regarding self) >is hidden from the "outer" senses but not from the "inner" senses. This >is a "self - aware >movement. It is like musical "movement [where, incidentally, the "outer" >senses do perceive the >simultaneity" of unfoldment / enfoldment]. (pat) > > >When it became law that everyone must "have a personal identity", somehow >we stopped being wise and started acting and pretending to be the image >associated with the personal identity. That is, we ignore the processes > that we are, by which we interact with the WHOLE and act and pretend >that we are identical with the optical image, the photo image. > >Giving careful attention to universal processes, logos, perhaps we can >begin to investigate and perhaps somehow identify with those processes >that actually identify what we are instead of just what the imagery >suggests. > >Reason-ance? -- Don Lay > >Yes. There seem to be such identity phases or moments - if it could be >called that - >a sense that 'what I am is process or in process'. But it seems that even >this kind >of identification is not necessary - except probably as a means of >attempting to >think and speak of what is happening now in relation to what was >happening when >identity was with images. > >pat >_______________________________________________ >info: >www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue > >post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net > >dialogue facilitator: >facilitator@david-bohm.net > >Administrator of the mailing list: >admin@david-bohm.net > >_______________________________________________ > > From tangykatt at earthlink.net Fri Oct 13 16:41:28 2006 From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi) Date: Sat Oct 14 17:39:40 2006 Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Direction dia-logos (resent) In-Reply-To: <BAY123-F15A05E4BFA826AA3548F8BB70A0@phx.gbl> Message-ID: <C1551DD8.37D6%tangykatt@earthlink.net> We unfold and enfold simultaneously. There is nothing else. (pat) To have moments of this awareness of ?unfolding and enfolding simultaneously? is to live in the ?Now,? to be fully present. Yes,yes. Singing off for now, k On 10/13/06 10:17 AM, "Regina Bensch-Coe" <benschcoe@hotmail.com> wrote: > We unfold and enfold simultaneously. There is nothing else. (pat) > > To have moments of this awareness of ?unfolding and enfolding > simultaneously? is to live in the ?Now,? to be fully present,